A couple of weeks ago I wrote a post about “Juggalos” using the recent case of two teens who have been accused of attempting to kidnap a 5-year-old as a jumping off point. Having a degree in Comparative Religion I I did what I always do when I come across some interesting social phenomenon and over research the subject. I also received comments from several Juggalos which kept me interested and focused on the subject. I have become convinced through my research that the Utah authorities are quietly re-enacting the poor police work and bad intelligence gathering that characterized the Satanic Panic of the 1990s.
I know that this will put me at odds with many crime bloggers, some of whom aren’t big fans of Juggalos which I understand, but it is my belief that the police in Utah are making the same mistakes police made in the 90s which not only sent many innocent people to jail like in the McMartin Pre-school case but forever tainted other cases in the minds of the public, ala The West Memphis Three.
The mistake I’m alluding to may seem minor to some but I put forward that it is critical to understanding why it’s entirely possible that the two teens accused may be innocent of kidnapping (though not of drug possession) and the exaggerated police and the public perception of the danger presented by I.C.P. fans is largely due to them being fed false information. From the September 8th report:
West Valley police captain Tom McLachlan said this group calls themselves ICP.
“We consider them a gang,†said McLachlan. “Members of the group have been in trouble with the law, they run together and we treat them like a gang.â€
Look, you don’t need a doctorate to know Juggalos are no more a gang than Goths, Emo kids and Wiccans are. But all those groups have been listed as gangs by various police departments. Why?
It’s because Police departments rely on “experts” whose credentials they have no interest in verifying and worse they allow those same experts to vomit forth their inane contentions to the public. Supposed expert Dale Griffis forever polluted the West Memphis Three case with his complete and utter lack of knowledge of the occult. There is no part of his testimony in that case that is factually accurate and in fact his 1980s era cult handbook (widely circulated to law enforcement) reads suspiciously like a Dennis Wheatley novel edited by Montague Summers. No wonder then his most recent work is an Alex Jonesian rehash of the debunked and discredited C.I.A. Mind Control Sex Slave theory.
In other words Dale Griffins, like Ted Gunderson before him, was a crank who was able to insinuate himself into and corrupt police investigations. The two were (and still are) part of an “occult expert” industry that makes money telling people their worst fears are true. America has largely turned their backs on such people, who have begun re-packaging themselves as gang experts.
It is “gang experts” that perpetuate the subculture as gang myth because it’s sensational, it’s easy and it sells. It’s a sleazy and dishonest business and one that’s easily disproved. A few days of ethnographic research will show you exactly what the Juggalo subculture is: a blend of stoner and splatterpunk culture united around a small group of bands which appeals to White working class youth who feel disenfranchised from both mainstream society and the “underground” movements.
But why does that matter? Because without that context it becomes too easy to create a second Satanic Panic. The video report on the incident shows something very interesting if you watch it. The children, all of whom were unsupervised by adults, admitted being scared by the clown makeup of two teens but no adult saw the two menacing the children at all. It’s easy to paint the incident as sinister but take away the “Juggalos are a gang” theory and pretend for a moment it was just a clown coming home from work:
Parents living at the apartment complex at 4040 South in West Valley City claimed two teens in clown makeup terrified their children.
“My eight year old daughter came flying into the house completely terrified told us there were a couple of guys in clown masks outside grabbing kids and threatening them,†said Hank Surowiec who lives in the complex.
One of those kids was four-year-old Mauricio Gonzalez.
“My daughter came running to the house saying they were trying to take him,” said Claudia Gonzales.
She said her husband found Mauricio with the two teens and brought him to safety.
Meanwhile, word spread quickly about two men wearing a clown mask threatening children.
The Lee’s tried to calm a couple of kids down.
“They were very scared,†said Tahira Lee. “They came inside. They couldn’t explain themselves or what was going on. They were stuttering. That’s how I knew something was wrong.”
Haven’t we all been scared of clowns? And sans clown makeup (and pot) wouldn’t you expect two teens who found a 4-year-old playing with some kids just a few years younger, who then ran off leaving the toddler, to attempt to take the kid to find their parents? My point isn’t that I think it’s impossible that these two were kidnappers, just that it’s probable they were doing what you and I would want them to do if they saw a kid that young alone. If not for the clown paint the kids wouldn’t have been scared, and if not for the Utah authorities’ poisonous attitudes about Juggalos it might be likely that the police would be arresting the people who left their 8-year-old in charge of a 4-year-old.
To be sure, Utah Juggalos are their own worst enemy, second only to whatever worm tongued “expert” who is sucking money from an oblivious tax payer teat in exchange for him or her pulling facts from thin air. The kidnapping charges come on the heels of a gruesome ax attack on a 17-year-old where the perpetrators were identified by the “Hatchetman” medallion one dropped during the attack. But Utah authorities are repeating the same mistakes so many made in the 90s by elevating the Juggalo in their mind from somewhat goofy (to we old codgers) subculture to violent gang. That gang enforcement officers are spending time on Juggalos, when MS-13 and Eme are gaining footholds in Utah, should show everyone that Utah’s priorities are skewed.
This case, like the West Memphis Three, will forever be the subject of conspiracy theorizing even if the two are guilty because Utah police will continue to display a level of ignorance unacceptable to most people. That is the legacy of the “experts” that parasitically attach themselves to each new urban myth. Until law enforcement begins demanding a real level of expertise from its experts there is no case that will not be tainted by suspicion, and that’s how it should be. The flawed logic that has police listing Juggalos as a gang would earn an “F” in a freshman college class, but it’s unfortunately unquestioningly accepted as gospel in the news media and court rooms. That should scare us more than pot smokers in clown paint.
Regardless of one’s feelings about a group, it should be relatively easy (should be) to separate personal opinion from facts, and the facts are that if they are being unjustly accused based upon some irrational, fanatical idiots who think anything outside of their narrow scope are the creation of some demonic creature, it is 100% wrong. As much as I detest the lyrics, behavior, and influence of I.C.P. and their fans, I can certainly understand their position and sympathize with them in this instance.
I often wonder when we will see the end of all the “You’re a devil worshipper!” and “It’s all Satan’s fault!” and ( I love this one ) “We are being tempted by Satan to do evil but Jeezusss is Lord and will save us from the wicked!” Tempting the predisposed is like raping the willing! In addition to the ignorance of still believing such things, especially when that ignorance leads groups of fanatical followers to harass and attack innocent people.
It honestly boggles the mind that in this day and age, society is still inclined to follow superstitious rantings of backasswards, agenda-driven religious radicals. When I hear of things like this, I sometimes expect to see screaming in the streets and fear of the end of the world anytime we have an eclipse or a New Moon. It’s the same level of understanding common folk had in the 800’s B.C., and such disregard for logic, reason, and all around education should be a crime. Forget simply suing for slander. Press charges for religious persecution (see what I did there? 😉 ) .
Don’t forget about the kindling by Jack Chick and idiots like him, which claimed all kinds of absurd things about Hallowe’en. Had the fundies bothered to do some research for themselves instead of behaving as the blind sheep they are, they would have realized the things he claimed never could have happened because either the time line was wrong or such things never existed in Ireland.
The same thing happens here with what you are saying. Society hears a bad thing and simply goes with it. Not all, mind you, but enough that it becomes common place and innocent people are labeled, attacked, and often times destroyed in one way or another.
I commend you for posting this after coming down hard on the Juggalos. However, I think you are taking “seeing both sides” a bit far when you suggest the two teens could merely have been seeing to the young one’s safety.
Rob.. come on. LOL Yes, many of us fear clowns. I hate them, myself. The point of it is that had the teens approached the children in a non-threatening manner, they would have won them over. Kids may fear clowns for whatever reason, but not bad enough to run screaming to their parents, shaking and terrified while relaying that a 4 year old was being specifically targeted. Kids naturally give people the benefit of the doubt. That is why adults who care for their safety should always be there to supervise. We know not all older people should be trusted or given the chance to show their intention.
A child will hesitate to accuse someone unless something bad is really happening, especially if it looks like they may be dressed up to play. Get it?
However, excellent point about the parents! WTH were children that young doing outside unsupervised???? Why didn’t the police question the parents about that? I think you’re right that this new version of Satanic Panic blinded the police to that angle.
I have to play my own devil’s advocate here on myself because I’m seeing that “every group has a bad apple” idea. Who’s to say these two were actually Juggalos? In fact, who’s to say ALL Juggalos are like this? Finding them a bit silly doesn’t make them organized killers or kidnappers.
I loathe “Anon/Anonymous”. Why? Because I had a run in with a group of “Anon’s” a while back fervently defending pedophiles. Some time later, when Anon was getting haulted upon the shoulders of every anti-Scientologist, I had a lengthy conversation with some different Anon members. They told me they would never condone child sexual abuse, would never defend pedophiles, and have in fact brought several major pedophiles to justice. I was told there are a lot of people with ill intentions using the hysteria caused by Anon’s ability to ruin the lives of the corrupt for their own purpose. They claim they are Anon so people will fear arguing with them.
Now, this group could have been lying to me just as they claimed the first group had lied to me. The fact of the matter is, someone was pretending and using the status of a notorious “don’t fuck with us” type group for their own fame. It isn’t that hard to believe, therefore, that the majority Juggalos could actually be relatively harmless. I’m not saying they are because I’ve yet to meet any, but it is something to think about.
This is what makes your comments about “real level of expertise” so right on. I always say to myself, “Consider the source.” Looks as though the Utah police should make it THEIR motto! (and really, Rob, we’re talking about Utah here. Protectors of the Mormon cultists who marry 10 year old girls for breeding and sexual torture and say their God says it’s law to do so.)
I agree that it’s suspicious, especially given that I worked with kids myself and know how they attract perverts but the fact is Utah’s claim against Juggalos makes it hard to take them seriously. I don’t think the kids were Samaritans, but I frankly doubt they’re kidnappers. I’m betting they were high and hanging around a playground like morons. Scaring kids and acting stupid.
But I’ve seen kids exaggerate things because in they don’t have the capacity yet to see “the truth” in a situation. I’ve had to explain to countless kids that I don’t hate them when I put them in time out, or that when they saw me smoking (I worked in a small town YMCA program and kids used to see me anywhere) that I wasn’t going to literally get cancer the next day. I think its possible two kids, one of whom was 15, could have thought they were playing tag with the kids and not realize the kids were terrified, especially if they were high.
The Juggalos have an alibi witness, the kids have bad parents who had no idea teens dressed as clowns were near their kids, I’m inclined to give a little benefit of the doubt and say that these two should get a drug and disturbing the peace charge, but kidnapping? Meh.
That’s a good point with the Anon analogy. I happen to think their pricks regardless of their stance on Pedophiles but that’s an aside.
I just hate to see the cops fall for nonsense like this. As a fringe movement Juggalos will attract a fringe element at times, as does Wicca which you’re excellent post about perverts Gavin and Yvonne Frost illustrates. If these two kids are kidnappers, and have a good lawyer, they could get off because of the cops. It kills me.
From what I’ve seen Juggalos are pretty much like metal heads. About 5-10% will get themselves in the news with a bunch of nonsense (Like Count Grishnahk) but most are up to nothing more sinister than smoking pot and irritating their parents.
Brings back memories of Twisted Sister out to brainwash kids for Satanic sacrifices LOL!!! Oh, and how about Ozzy and the chicken head? I don’t think that one will ever go away. This is just another thing for fanatics to freak out about, I suppose.
I understand there is a lot of miscommunication here, and I wouldn’t be so quick to assume kidnapping. More like you’re saying about being high and annoying but without the trying-to-help-the-kid angle 😛 .
Still, in regards to I.C.P., their lyrics are and have always been over the line. Are they the only ones with lyrics that should be banned from being known to any life form? No, not by any stretch, but their lyrics are vile, none-the-less. Had your post been about Snoop Dogg, say the same thing! Does it mean that everyone who listens to their music acts upon it? No, but you have to wonder about anyone who finds those words amusing or cool.
Gavin and Yvonne Frost. The most vile couple I’ve ever come across! We’re in a movement now to force them from any venue that claims to be “family oriented” or “kid friendly”, such as the Florida Pagan Gathering – where the organizers invited the Frosts and had the audacity to reply to angry mail that the FPG does not condone child abuse of any kind and that the Frosts have never been prosecuted for child sex abuse. So, as you can imagine, it’s become a monster of a movement – with the Frosts and the FPG coming out the losers very quickly!
And yes, Anon infuriates me to no end. I don’t know which side to believe in that tale I related, and that is part of the problem. That group has created an unstoppable beast with limbs extending into directions the creators claim they never meant. What did they expect? You let a bunch of unloved and bullied hackers into your fold and set them free with rules and guidelines for operating above the law, and you actually expect them to listen?! They are criminals when they come to you. You cannot expect them to behave any differently, and you cannot pretend you neither knew it was going to happen or are in any way responsible. So, yes, the world can quite do without Anon!
thanks so much rob for taking an intrest in us we got madd love for yah!!! so im not using big words like you guys ha ha im only 20 lol plus why type a big ass word whn i can sum it up in smaller ones lol………..anyways i’m glad to see that you have seen things from our side too too many ppl dont take the time out to see things from both sides they onlsee the side they want to just like these supposed experts!!! assholes!!! and smp thanks for seeing things from our side too even tho you dont agree with our way of life!!! and much love to everyone we appreciate it!!
<3 Skitlz
I couldn’t agree more Miss Skitlz,
I appreciate the fact that both were willing to take the time and research our way of life. So many times we get hated on just because we are juggalos or juggalettes, for what? the media to take and distort the whole persona of ‘Los
and ‘Lettes, just because we are different. This was an interesting topic, I am glad that, from a juggalo stand point, that we can live and interact with non’Los and non’Lettes, and if we could just get rid of the lil bastards(wanna be’s) that claim the name that are in no way an actual part of our society, I think we would be less judged. So again thank you guys for taking the time and effort involved to not only do the research, but also not being afraid to look at our side also.
MUCH CLOWN LOVE
Chop Da Clown
I appreciate the feed back. Consider Red Alerts a Juggalo friendly website, as long as you guys don’t mind a little conservatism.
We appreciate that it the upmost way. And thanks for having us. We do not mind, we know there is a lot going on in the world that is misleading, and not much anyone can do about it. Oh and please do not for get the Juggaletts, we would not be much with out them. Thanks again.
MUCH CLOWN LOVE
Chop Da Clown
Okayy, I have to start of by saying, just because some OTHER juggalos did something stupid, does NOT mean we all are the same. I dont try to kidnap 5 year olds thanks. We are not a gang or a “cult”. We are a family. Maybe some of you know what a family is, maybe not. But it is nice to have someone to go to when times are tough, someone to have your back, and someone to just hang out with. Im sorry if you are, I guess, Threatened? By some peoples actions. But its like saying, Oh my gosh, this white guy tried to kidnap a little kid, lets run from all of them and call them a cult! AH! This really angers me. Im out.
MUCH CLOWN LOVE!!
wow, well i guess if you really hate us! cant you just do something else with your life i mean come on u should really worry about the REAL fucking gangs MS13, Vice lords TRG’s, ABZ, ECT okay man what only little bitty shit happis u wanna know whats more interesting and fucked up MS13 unloaded gun fire and shit on a big yellow bus full of kids and women go do a report on that buddy!!
MMFCL
Love Rev! 🙂
Are you reading the above post? I basically agreed with you that Juggalos aren’t the same as a gang (although many seem to get themselves in trouble often) so what’s your deal?
I report on MS-13 all the time, just as I’ve reported on The Mongols, Eme, the Klan etc.
And by the way, this post is two months old. There are literally dozens of stories burying it. Try reading my site before criticizing it. That way when you demanded people not judge tarted up pot smokers without doing some research you wouldn’t be a hypocrite.
I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to really look into what juggalos are really about, and once again see things from our perspective. Rob and SMP really have done us a great service. Thank you, and much love.
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