Slow day here? You betcha! I’m putting the finishing touches on a book review and decided to engage on some Internet dialog with my fellow Pagans who lean left on this hit piece on Jason Pitzl-Waters’ blog The Wild Hunt. I hesitate to bring this up because Jason thinks I dislike him on a personal level which is of course not the case. We do disagree on much however, including the idea of Sarah Palin and the “Dominionist” threat to American Pagans. I also tend to think that Palin receiving a blessing from an African pastor who “fights Witches” means very little in the scheme of things.
TWH and the “Witches” who spend their time lurking on the Internet railing against Sarah Palin rather than, I don’t know, practicing Witchcraft seem to disagree. Strongly, as it turns out, or at least by Wiccan standards it is. But first here’s a copy of my comment to The Wild Hunt regarding the evil of Sarah Palin and her barbaric African “Witch hunter” compatriot:
Little bit racist here isn’t it Jason? The “witch hunters” supposed hunting is confined to being a Pentecostal who fought a magical battle with another practitioner. This is part of a long tradition in Africa of “practitioners” battling each other that has been passed even into Diaspora traditions like Voodoo, Santeria and Hoodoo. By painting this as “Witch hunting†you’re ignoring the traditions of Africa and judging this person by American, or really European standards. Not very tolerant I’d say.
And what he did was no different from what the so-called Witches here do, or are supposed to be doing I should say. I’ve been involved in many a metaphysical dust up. Am I “Witch hunting” now? Was Herman Slater a “Witch hunter’ when he fought the Frosts?
But more to the point comparing traditional African magical practice to the anemic paganism of modern America, as the wailing of Palin being anti-American Pagan because of her affiliation with some Christian from Africa implies, is charitable to say the least. When Hoodoo practitioners slap curses on Sante Muerte cultists neither is part of an anti-Pagan movement, and more importantly neither are Wiccans so it really doesn’t affect them. This is more co-opting of other cultures by White, middle class armchair Witches. It’d be better for all of us if people took Wiccans seriously enough to be afraid of them.
These “Third wave Christians” are no more anti-Catholic than the commenters here and ALL Christians are theologically opposed to paganism just as all Jews, Muslims, Satanists, Atheist etc are. Just as I am philosophically opposed to Christianity (it preaches weakness and spiritual slavery) Islam (a religion of rape and murder that stole a holy Pagan shrine) and Judaism (their god treats them shoddily indeed) however those “wingnuts” have gone out of their way to promote my openly Pagan blog (and others) and Palins operation has been open to Conservative Pagans for some time. Red Alerts has an at least 50% Conservative Christian readership yet I have never received any negative feedback for religiously themed articles I write. Nor have I been evangelized even when Christians and I have broached religion online.
I have gotten death threats from Wiccans however. And Muslims which is another story.
I proudly affiliate with Christian, Muslim and Jewish groups despite having theological problems with their false religions. I suppose that means I’m in cahoots with an anti-Pagan conspiracy. And I suppose since many of you affiliate with Marxists online you’re all part of a communist conspiracy to overthrow the government.
I don’t judge people by their religious beliefs just as I don’t judgepeople by the foods they like, the books they read or anything else that isn’t related to their direct interaction with me. Neither do the “wingnuts” you’re lambasting in my experience.
But while you’re lambasting Sarah Palin and her book (which I admit Ihave not and likely will not read, although my non-Pagan wife may) some of those conservative Christians you hate tipped me to yet another “pagan” who is in fact a sex offender named Tom Sokilik, aka Silver Dragon Wolfe (as an aside, can we stop using craft names we thought were cool when we 15?) who has recently admitted to molesting pagan children even as we speak and more disturbingly claims to have some knowledge of the murder of a 15-year-old girl he was molesting that he hasn’t shared with the police. I would ask “Riverbend†and others if they will be thanking the “wingnuts” for watching out for their children while they complain online about some person they’ll never meet and or interact with.
Or are they too being hateful by identifying real threats to you and yours? More Christianist nonsense I guess. But I’m curious as to when Pagans will look in their own backyard for problems as opposed to recycling Naomi Wolfe/Alex Jones’ “secret society” conspiracy theories. There is a man in your midst now, who may be culpable for the murder of a teen, who went to jail for molesting teens, who admitted to molesting a 5-year-old and is active in the Pagan community and it was a “wingnut” who tipped me to it because she cares about your children.
Pagans Against Child Abuse and Red Alerts and several other peoplehave pointed this out for years and been slandered and attacked for it. Instead you bleat about “the real threat” like sheep scared of the farmer’s shear unaware of the butcher waiting among them. But by all means put your energy into Sarah Palin. The Christians can watch your children and take on your responsibility to police the Pagan community.
In other words, I take the philosophically Republican view of religion. I treat believers in other traditions with respect even if I (sometimes strongly) disagree with their religions. I am not a believer in Christianity but I do respect Christians and try to treat them fairly. I have debated some and will always be open to religious debate with anyone while remaining polite, respectful and friendly. Modern Wiccans in general do not feel the same way unfortunately.
My comment was met with a flurry of the usual venom, no doubt spurred on mostly by the fact that I confront Wiccans with the same critical eye I use with any other religion. To the Wiccan, it is acceptable for me to claim that Christianity is, in essence, too liberal for me. Christian meekness and turn-the-other-cheekery, as I have said to Christian friends of mine for years, encourages Islamist aggression and leftist exploitation. What isn’t acceptable to these same Wiccans, who I should point out have embraced meekness as part of the New Paganism, is pointing out that Wiccans are in fact not particularly well versed in what we loosely term Occultism these days and in fact few are knowledgeable enough to even be considered proficient in Witchcraft. Thus, their fundamental misunderstanding of Africa’s religious scene.
Modern Wicca is a role-playing game for adults who never outgrew the desire to tell people their “craft” name is Black Dragon Thunder Pants or something equally asinine. It is a leftist dumping ground for New Agers who can be relied on to march in lockstep on any issue (such as Sarah Palin) but aren’t ready for the grownup table. They pretend to practice Witchcraft and are jealous of those who really do, like say a rootworker or other practitioner of African Diaspora traditions. They need to feel oppressed so they latch on to bizarre conspiracies about Sarah Palin and her “Dominionist” fellows ready to overthrow the government and burn all the witches. And they hate people who point out that their Llewellyn scripted passion play is not just a con game of truly epic proportions, but a gateway to abuse for their children as they embrace the Wiccan hippy sex cult ethos handed to them by their Pagan plantation masters.
Those people would be me.
As I’ve said, I’ve had plenty of death threats or threats of curses, bindings, banishing and whatever other ritual chastisements modern Wiccans have no understanding of. Almost always, these empty threats by hollow people completely devoid of chutzpah or ability to physically or metaphysically harm anyone has followed me exposing some pedophile or degenerate in their midst, or exposing how sad they look standing next to a real practitioner of some spiritual tradition, like the so-called “spiritual warfare” Christians or the African folk traditions of the south. Thus, when making a comment that does both I was not surprised to see frequent Wild Hunt commenter “snoozepossum” slap up his own thinly veiled and sadly non-worrisome death threat.
It’s short if you want to read it but the gist of it is that I’m an intolerant bigot for being intolerant of bigotry, his supposed coven Carolina Grove is just beleaguered by Christian attacks on their freedom, and in response to my point about mainly getting threats from Wiccans, that he “sees their point.”
In terms of threats made against me he “sees their point” and I assume thinks it’s justified to make such threats. Interesting. It’s ironic that in a comment thread full of screeching about how “dangerous” Sarah Palin is and how it’s just outrageous that Christians are philosophically opposed to Witchcraft (because after all no one should be offended by another person having a negative opinion of their faith) that I should receive this half-hearted threat for defending the faith traditions of others from obvious slanders.
Irony in the Wiccan community, however, is never a surprise.
For instance, while commenters crucified Palin for being “homophobic,” a commenter called Lokisgohdi left this little gem about the late Herman Slater:
Herman Slater was owner of the legendary Magickal Childe occult shop in NYC. He was an openly gay Wiccan who, as HIV began ravaging the gay community, promoted monogamy among gays to curtail the spread of AIDS. He was then labeled a conservative and to this day people like “Lokisgohdi” revel in his death from AIDS. “Lokisgohdi” goes a step further and accuses Slater of giving AIDS to the straight NYC Pagan community. You know, because “Lokisgohdi” did the research to determine patient zero for the great Pagan AIDS epidemic and in addition found that Slater purposefully introduced AIDS into the Pagan community out of sheer gay malice.
In other words, a fantasy based on his dislike of someone he never met. I guess Herman Slater is the Sarah Palin of gay Wiccans. Frankly, the attacks on Slater sound exactly like the kind of hateful rhetoric the “Dominionists” are being accused of by Wiccans to me.
And like this mincing threat by “snoozepossum,” it has all the substance you’d expect from the bush leagues of occultism.
I have to say that at least when degenerates from PaganSpace or some other nest of poseurs feel like making threats, they come right out and make their threats. Nowadays, all Wiccans can muster up is some warmed over DailyKos talking points and some cross words about how they maybe, kind of, possibly would support other people’s desire to see me harmed. Maybe.
But through all this childishness what you won’t see in the comments is any recognition that my essential point is important. It’s public knowledge (because it played out in my comments) that I basically had to guilt Jason Pitzl-Waters into blogging about Pagan pedophile James Douglas Ray who at the time was advertising on Witchvox for families to join his coven. In my comment I allude to yet another pedophile hiding amongst the Pagans and not one of those offended Wiccans in the comments cared.
Predators, you see, are a real threat. One that requires moral certainty and fortitude to deal with. It is easier by far to simply pretend that there is an anti-Pagan conspiracy you can fight from the comments section of your favorite blog, because this imaginary foe won’t be at the next pagan festival. The supposed “Witch hunters” of the Wiccan imagination aren’t crashing on their couches, or members of their “all inclusive circles” so railing against them requires no spine. Easier to “confront” Sarah Palin, Black people or Conservatives because they’ll never run into any in their real lives.
When I confront them I force them into the real world, where adults must face unpleasant situations and do what is right. Wiccans hate to break character, so having someone destroy the illusion of the Wiccan/Christianist war being the “real threat” and exposing that their forced solidarity with any cretin who buys a pentagram necklace at Hot Topic is an invitation to have their children raped only shows them how pathetic their “religion” has become. Until Wicca as a whole begins to set some standards of belief and behavior it will always be a refuge for sexual predators.
And until Wiccans see that child molesters and other predators are a more serious threat to them than Sarah Palin, my disdain for their non-existent magical prowess, and the Alex Jonesian conspiracies they make up while smoking pot in their parents’ basements, their children will never be safe.
You said: “Modern Wiccans in general do not feel the same way unfortunately.”
That is right on the money. Having studied my religion for years, one of the first things we are taught is not to disparage someone else’s religion or deity. To do so is to disparage our own. Unfortunately there are too many Borders Wiccans/Pagans these days that believe buying and reading a book or two on Paganism automatically makes them Pagan, without understanding the underlying beliefs.
These very people are the ones that give all Pagans a bad name in the community.
For a Wiccan to even think about sending you a death threat shows that they are not familiar with the Wiccan teachings.
“Nor do I demand sacrifice; For behold I am the Mother of all living, and my love is poured onto the Earth.”
Lokisgodhi’s comment is one of the most revolting things I have ever read. Herman Slater preached monogamy. How in the world does monogamy cause AIDS to spread? I do believe that Lokisgodhi is a homophobe.
I have never seen Sarah Palin at my circle, trying to burn myself or other practitioners. However, I HAVE seen sexual predators trying to justify their actions by the “fact” that they’re Pagan and it’s allowed.
We need to clean up our own backyards!
Rob Taylor,
This Jason Pitzl-Waters sound real mature, sending you a death threat for not agreeing with him. Seriously, does he not realize how bad that makes him look?
Off course its possible, that he does not care.
Damien, to be fair, I think it was a commenter on Jason’s blog, not Jason himself, who thinks death threats against Rob are ok.
Jenn Q. Public
Thanks for pointing that out.
Sorry about the mistake Rob.
There are a lot of pagan religious issues to address with this post, but I’m going to leave that. Instead, I’m just going to say that the pagans who ignore real threats against their community from inside their own ranks seem to be suffering from the conservative derangement syndrome that most liberals do.
Yes, there are some Christian bigots and some of them might even get violent, but like you, I’d much rather live next door to a Christian who believed strongly in the 1st and 2nd amendments than a pagan who had a chip on their shoulder about Christians and thinks guns are evil. I grew up in a household that was hellfire and brimstone, evangelical Christian. When I stopped going to church at age 13 and came out as pagan a few years later, no one followed me home, beat me up or burned a cross on my lawn.
If liberals really believe that the Sarah Palins of the world are the problem, then I’m truly afraid for the state of our nation.
I’m quite sick of the far left’s attack on Sarah Palin. How would these hypocrites like it if there were a sexist war against women whom happen to be left-wing?
Fair game, right Lefties? You started it.
I could never wrap my head around the notion that so many pagans, presumably the vast majority, are attracted to a political party, or to an ideology, that insists on a big brother type government which seems to me to be the natural progression from Democratic Party policies. And what ones aren’t Democrats are either Greens, or even Socialists. There are relatively few Republicans, though there do seem to be more Libertarians than you would find as a percentage of the mainstream population.
Still, you would think that pagans of all people would cherish and value the concept of limited government and individual liberties. How adept can they be as magical practitioners if they think it is essential that they have the protection of big government looking over their shoulders and making sure everybody toes the line?
Do they even get the concept of republican (small r) principles, of majority rule concurrent with guaranteed minority protections, of government as a SERVANT of the people as opposed to being a tool of special interests to lord it over everybody else? Of course, they see themselves as a special interest, and they want the “protection” that status conveys. It’s sickening.
In the meantime, to them the burning issues of the day revolves around nativity scenes in public squares and public prayers to Jesus in obscure city council meetings. And I’m supposed to march hand in hand with them in solidarity while they proceed to make obnoxious asses out of themselves and everything they pretend to stand for in the eyes of the majority of Americans, where they make up at best one percent of the population, and most of them are poseurs.
And they call Sarah Palin a wingnut. They act like they’re scared to death of a woman who would probably be surprised to learn of their existence. What a joke.
Rob, I’m considering starting a blog and allowing anyone to post, too. You have all the fun, and dammit, it’s just not fair. 😉
You know, I haven’t been to TWH since I was a member of PaganSpace, way back when… it seemed like another PaganSpace type place to me, so I didn’t bother with it (figured one was enough, right?)
But it never ceases to amaze me how firmly so many Pagans have their blinders glued in place… why do they blatantly refuse to see the predators in their midst? It was the same thing at PaganSpace, and it scares the hell out of me that the same thing goes on at Pagan festivals everywhere. I’ve been to one or two of them, and folks just let their kids run wild, not really paying attention to where they are or what they’re doing. That, combined with their unwillingness to believe that any “Pagan” attending could potentially be there to prey on their children is a recipe for disaster. That anyone would so willingly and blindly put their child in that kind of danger is just disgusting.
ROTFLMFAO
You think THAT’S a death threat??!! Oh dear . . . if I call you a silly dweebie, you’ll need therapy!
You could at least get your personal facts straight. How is anyone to accord you any professionalism when you can’t even accurately report the gender of the person who’s trying to kill you?
Do try to do better, eh?
Thanks for dropping by several moths later. What gender are you? Or have we moved beyond such things.
Claiming you “see the point” of people who have literally claimed to be planning on killing me is a death threat, though as I said a rather mincing one. If I said the same to you you’d be in tears surely.
Let me guess, your friend Deirdre is still feverishly searching Red Alerts for something to cry about?
I was convicted for a sex offense in 1991. during my incarceration I discovered the spiritual way of life/witchcraft. I have been involved in years of therapy/ sex offender treatment programs and I surely have benefited from those programs. The craft on the other hand is the magical key that has changed my life for the better in ways that no words can explain such as empathy for my victims. after serving almost 20 years. I am now out on parole and have no ambition or temptation to ever sexually abuse another person. All said and done. I take my pagan religious beliefs intensively serious, and that of the rede. I have purchased hundreds of books from witchcraft/wicca, paganism, satanism, etc. I did not jump into being a witch over night. I was at first overly cautious, and read a half dozen books before I really began searching with an open mind. I am not one who embraced witchcraft/wicca seeing it as a way to obtain more victims. I embraced wicca because I believe! I embraced wicca because it helped me liberate myself from my perverted self manifested demons.
There is so much cognitive dissonance and ambiguous statements regarding sex offenders it crazy. The most fearing are those nazi stereo type wiccans/pagans. jumping on the hate wagon forming there own Malleus Maleficarum. Just because a person stands up to protect another human being who committed a horrid act, against a bunch of like minded haters, does not mean that the protector condones the wrong doers actions or behavior.
Wrong post Karl. But I guess one can’t be expected to read the post you comment on. Unless you’re claiming that defending people threatening to kill me should be acceptable to me.
If so i can see Wicca has “helped” you immensely.
Okay, asswipe, I’m a homophobe. I’m sure all the people I served with on the board of directors of the National Leather Association’s NYC chapter would have a good laugh about that.
Let’s get some things straight about Herman Slater.
First off, I knew him well. I’ve had personal experiences with him before he died in 1992.
Slater *might* have promoted monogamy among gays to curtail the spread of AIDS, but he sure didn’t practice it. As far as I’m concerned he only paid lip service to it. I Knew several people in the NYC Pagan community who claimed to have contracted AIDS through unprotected sex with Herman Slater. I have no reason doubt them. They were people that I knew and liked and who didn’t deserve to die the way they did. Herman talked a good game but did not practice what he preached and other people paid for it.
I don’t revel in his death from AIDS. I wish the scumbag never contracted it. He then would not have taken down several individuals who were far better human beings that he ever was.
It’s moronic to make stupid statements about ‘sheer gay malice’ when anyone with a functioning brain knows that AIDS can easily jump from gay to straight people because people are not monosexual. There’s a huge bisexual component who have relationships with both gay and straight people. So Slater introduced AIDS into the NYC Pagan community period.
What Slater most deserves to be spending eternity having unspeakable thing done to him is for his actions towards some of his employees at the Magickal Childe. I know for a fact that he threated to fire employees who asked for time off to care for terminal partners. To abuse people at that point is unspeakable. In my book and in the book of many others, that makes him one of the biggest scumbags who ever walked the planet.
It sounds to me that you’re the one who knows jack about Herman Slater.
Second, you have absolutely no idea what my politics are. So I’d suggest you stop attributing political attributes to statements when you have no idea what’s behind them.
Third, I’m not a Wiccan. Which should have been quite obvious from my screen name. I’m an Asatruar and I don’t care all that much for Wicca or Wiccans. I don’t think they add much to the credibility of Pagan religions.
Jason Pitzl-Waters is avant-garde and progressive. You can tell this from his edgy black and white portrait on his home page and his chic little goatee. Maybe he is for Eugene, Oregon. For the rest of the world however, he’s a pretty much just a prude and a hack.
About the only real and useful contribution he makes to the Pagan community is the fact the Wild Hunt gets information about Pagan related happenings out in a timely manner. Hey, isn’t that what hacks do best?
We need our drones. If we have to put up with his infantile excuse for art, his crappy music, his being a whiny little attention whore, and have to put up with his hyperbole, so be it.
So don’t rock the boat.
Hey thanks for showing up four or five months later and vomiting this out. But read the new comment policy. Red Alerts doesn’t care about you douches anymore.
Bad mouth Waters on his blog, all you supposed pagans are going to starve to death soon enough and good riddance to role playing rubbish.
I mean, you get that Western Civilization collapsed a few months ago right? That within five years you’ll be lucky to find a doctor, food or someone who wants to talk to a grown man calling himself “Lokisgohdi” or Dragonbane Thunderpants or whatever you’ll be calling yourself?
Get lost. The rest of your comments will be moved to spam unless they relate to the new material Red Alerts deals with (which is survivalism and preparedness) and before you get all rude and disrespectful and start hurling your threats around I live in Mauldin South Carolina so any of you “pagans’ who wants to “teach me a lesson’ can let me know when they’ll be in town.
And just for the record, I don’t give a shit about Jason or The Wild Hunt. I hope he makes good money and don’t have any persona ax to grind with some Internet weirdo. Maybe you should stop hanging around his site if he sucks so bad, but then I guess you’d have to set up your own Google alert for the word “Pagan” and I’m sure your busy.